Showing posts with label Thurman. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Thurman. Show all posts

Saturday, March 4, 2017

Thurman vs. Garcia: prefight analysis and betting prediction



Fight: Keith Thurman (27-0, 22 KOs) vs. Danny Garcia (33-0, 19 KOs)
Location: Barclays Center, Brooklyn, New York, New York
Date: March 4, 2017
Weight class: Welterweight (147 lbs)
Title(s) on the line: WBC World welterweight and WBA Super World welterweight titles
TV: CBS
Line: Thurman -220, Garcia +200 (5 Dimes, 3/4/17)
Purse: Thurman: $2 million, Garcia: $2 million
Ring Magazine Rankings: Thurman: #2 ranked welterweight, Garcia: #7 ranked welterweight
Style: Thurman: Orthodox, Garcia: Orthodox
Referee: Michael Griffin


Why you should watch this fight


This is a key matchup in what right now is probably the most stacked weight class division in boxing. Thurman vs. Garcia will be just the 3rd fight in boxing history to match two undefeated welterweights in a unification title fight. (The previous matchup being the 1999 superfight vs. undefeated welterweight champions Oscar De La Hoya and Felix Trinidad.)

Thurman vs. Garcia will also be just the 2nd fight in nearly 40 years to air on CBS in primetime - the 1st fight being Thurman's victory last June vs. Shawn Porter in a classic that was widely considered a fight of the year candidate for 2016.

Prior to these two fights, the last fight to air on CBS in primetime was Leon Spinks'  split-decision upset victory vs. Muhammad Ali, the 1978 Ring Magazine Fight of the Year that gave Ali only the 3rd loss of his career and 1st loss since losing to Ken Norton nearly five years prior.

The winner of this fight will stand alongside Manny Pacquiao as arguably the top welterweight in boxing and - given Floyd Mayweather's recent retirement as well as Pacquiao's gradual but inevitable transition from boxer to full-time Philippine politician - is positioned to become one of the prominent faces of the division for years to come.

Along with the Pacquiao vs. Amir Khan and Kell Brook vs. Errol Spence fights tentatively scheduled for later this spring, Thurman vs. Garcia will go a long way towards clarifying who the top fighter is in what is probably the most talent-laden division in the sport.


Why Keith Thurman will win


Thurman is an undefeated fighter who has been the WBA welterweight champion since 2013. He's an aggressive boxer-puncher with good foot movement and one punch KO power in both hands. (Thurman has won 22 of his 27 pro fights by TKO/KO for an impressive KO% of 79%) At 28 years old, Thurman is in his prime and is highly confident coming off what was by far the best win of his career in last year's unanimous decision victory over top welterweight Shawn Porter.

 Aside from his natural power and athleticism, Thurman is a very thoughtful, highly intelligent boxer
who has noticeable advantages in size, speed, and mobility over Garcia. Thurman had a lot of success using foot movement to stay out of range vs. the herky-jerky ambush style of Porter; one would expect he will have even more success evading the power of the relatively flat-footed, more predictable Garcia.

Thurman has much more experience at welterweight than Garcia - he has fought essentially his entire career at 147 lbs or higher, while this will only be Garica's 4th fight at welterweight. Thurman at this point is fairly battle-tested at 147 with experience vs. some good power punchers in the division, while Garcia's toughest tests at 147 have been vs. Robert Guerrero and Paulie Malignaggi - both of whom are well past their prime. Although Garcia has two TKO victories in his three fights at welterweight, it's still unclear how well his proven power at 140 lbs will carry up vs. the top welterweights at 147; Thurman appears to be the naturally stronger fighter with the superior punching power in this matchup.

Like Thurman, Garcia is also undefeated but two of his recent victories (vs. Lamont Peterson and Mauricio Herrera - neither of whom are as highly regarded as Thurman) have been controversial, majority decision victories that many felt he lost. Garcia is a skilled, well-rounded fighter but has not proven to be an elite technician and is prone to being outboxed in large stretches of fights - including the later rounds of his fights vs. Peterson and Herrera, the early rounds of his 1st fight vs. a past prime Erik Morales, the early rounds of his fight vs. Khan, and even his split-decision victory vs. Ashley Theophane back in 2010 (a fight some felt Theophane won).

As proven in some of the fights noted above, boxers with solid jabs and good movement can frustrate Garcia's typically slow and flat-footed counterpunching style. If Thurman can establish his jab and use movement to evade Garcia's dangerous counterpunching ability, it will be extremely difficult for Garcia to win a 12 round decision given Thurman's seemingly superior size, speed, punching power, and boxing IQ - not to mention his advantage in experience at 147 lbs.

As a final point, it's worth noting that many seem to be overlooking the fact that Thurman's trainer is two-time Boxing Writers Association of America (BWAA) trainer of the year Dan Birmingham - a world class trainer who has trained the likes of former undisputed light middleweight champion Winky Wright and former Olympian and super middleweight champion Jeff Lacy. Birmingham and Thurman have known since early October that Garcia would be their next fight and have had a few months to game plan and prepare for the matchup.


Why Danny Garcia will win


Like Thurman, Garcia is also an undefeated fighter in his prime and has been a world champion in two different weight classes, unifying titles at junior welterweight (140 lbs) before moving up to win the vacant WBC welterweight championship vs. Robert Guerrero last year.

Garcia is a patient and poised counterpuncher who has overachieved considerably in becoming an undefeated, two-division world champion and one of the best boxers in the world pound for pound. Garcia has consistently risen to the occasion to beat top world-class opponents such as Lamont Peterson, Erik Morales (twice), Amir Khan, and Lucas Matthysse. Garcia was a +500 underdog in his 2012 title unification bout vs. Khan, who he knocked down 3 times en route to a 4th round TKO victory and was as high as a +250 underdog vs. feared power puncher Matthysse, who he scored a knockdown against en route to a clear but competitive unanimous decision victory in the co-main event of the Mayweather/Canelo card in 2013. Garcia actually enters Saturday's fight as a smaller underdog (+200) than he was vs. either Khan or Matthysse.

Despite only having 19 KOs in 33 fights (57.6 KO%), Garcia's punching power is dangerous and very underrated. Garcia has knocked down 8 of his last 11 opponents over the past 5 years, knocking them down  a total of 11 times in that span. Garcia's knockdowns often come courtesy of his left hook, which is by far his best punch and is considered by many to be one of the best left hooks - if not the best left hook - in the sport.

Garcia is a very effective, savvy counter puncher with pretty good hand speed and very good timing on his punches; so if he can land the right counters vs. Thurman's at-times reckless attack (in particular to the body where Thurman was badly hurt and nearly took a knee in his July 2015 fight vs. Luis Collazo) then Thurman could be in for a much tougher night than expected. Thurman was solid defensively in his last fight vs. Porter but in the past has occasionally shown a lack of discipline defensively, dropping his hands in inopportune spots which has left him exposed to clean counter punching (most notably vs. Diego Chaves and Jesus Soto Karass).

Garcia has a reputation for having one of the best chins in boxing (having never been knocked down or knocked out in his professional career), so at times may be able to risk trading shots with Thurman when he's in range - a scenario where you'd likely have to favor Garcia's chin over Thurman's despite Thurman's probable advantage in punching power.  

This fight is taking place in New York City, where the crowd is expected to be largely pro-Garcia. Garcia is of Puerto Rican descent (both of his parents are from Puerto Rico) and New York City is well-known for its large Puerto Rican population, with nearly a quarter of Puerto Ricans (over 1.2 million) in the United States living in the New York City metropolitan area. Garcia himself is originally from Philadelphia, which is less than a two hour drive from New York City; he is expected to have a large contingent of hometown supporters in the crowd Saturday night for the biggest fight of his career to date.

Garcia is a seemingly unflappable fighter who has risen to the occasion every time he's entered the ring as an underdog, not only winning but winning decisively - most recently vs. Matthysse on a huge stage in Las Vegas in the co-main event of what at the time became the highest grossing pay-per-view fight in boxing history (Mayweather vs. Canelo) - so you can never count him out.


Prefight Analysis


I like Keith Thurman to win this fight - probably by clear decision but possibly even by late stoppage. Thurman in my opinion has too many advantages in this fight for Garcia to overcome - size, foot speed, experience at welterweight, punching power, and boxing IQ. Considering the total package of skills Thurman brings to the fight and Garcia's relative inexperience at welterweight, this might be by far the toughest opponent Garcia has faced in his career.  

Garcia is a very solid fighter who - at least on paper - has some legitimately impressive wins as an underdog. But in taking a closer look at some of his fights vs. top-level opponents how impressive were those really? Garcia was getting decisively outboxed by Amir Khan but was able to get an early round TKO/KO victory against a fighter many consider to have the weakest chin of any top-level boxer in the modern era of boxing. Earlier in his career, Khan suffered a 1st round KO loss vs. 9-1 underdog Breidis Prescott, who went on to lose 4 of his next 7 fights after upsetting Khan.


Lucas Matthysse was one of the most feared power punchers in the sport at the time Garcia beat him, but has since proven to be somewhat overrated. After fighing Garcia, Matthysse was in a (surprisingly) highly competitive, fight of the year candidate vs. a B-level journeyman in John Molina Jr. who has lost 3 of his last 5 fights since facing Matthysse. And Matthysse lost by KO in his most recent fight vs. Viktor Postol, a top-level fighter but not a fighter known for his punching power. (Postol has only won 12 of this 29 career fights - 41% - by TKO/KO). Note that Matthysse has also never won a full world title belt and, with the exception of a 3rd round TKO/KO victory vs. Lamont Peterson, has lost to every top-level fighter he has faced - most notably Devon Alexander and rvrn a past prime Zab Judah.  

After fighting Matthysse, Garcia fought 9-1 underdog Mauricio Herrera in his family's homeland of Puerto Rico. Most who watched the fight felt Herrera beat Garcia, including the majority of the Puerto Rican crowd who largely booed the majority decision score for Garcia.

The following year, Lamont Peterson outboxed and dominated Garcia in the 2nd half of their fight in a controversial majority-decision loss, but probably came in to the fight with the wrong game plan by waiting to long to become the aggressor.

All other notable opposition Garcia has fought in recent years - Robert Guerrero, Paulie Malignaggi, and Erik Morales - were well past their prime (aged 32, 34, and 35 respectively) and years removed from being world title belt holders at the time they fought Garcia.

Garcia is a flat-footed, relatively low-volume fighter; I think Thurman is smart and skilled enough to exploit this by boxing Garcia from distance and using enough reach as to where Garcia's counter punching will be largely ineffective. Garcia's chances lie - as they did in his upset victory vs. Khan - primarily in his ability to time Thurman and land big punches but I don't see Thurman allowing Garcia to throw enough counters within range to pose a serious threat; I expect Thurman to mostly either stay out of Garcia's punching range or stay close enough inside to use his size advantage to smother Garcia's punches.

Thurman has the quicker hands, superior jab, and better foot movement so should be able to control the pace of the fight while Garcia waits for opportunities to counter. If Thurman controls the pace as I expect, I don't see any outcome other than a 9-3/8-4 type decision for Thurman (or even a late stoppage if Garcia is unable to handle Thurman's combination of movement and power). I strongly favor Thurman - and his array of advantages over Garcia - in this matchup.

In terms of betting, taking Thurman to win at any odds -230 or better suffices; but given Garcia's excellent chin I think one should strongly consider placing 25-50% of the wager on this fight on Thurman by 12 round decision (currently at +130). Other than a lucky punch, I don't see Garcia - as skilled and underrated as I think he is - having the movement or punch output over 12 rounds to outbox a guy with the physical tools, savvy, and skill of Thurman,- who I think was in much tougher in his previous fight vs. Shawn Porter (and passed that test with flying colors).


Prediction: Thurman to win


Recommended bets: 
1) Thurman to win (.75 unit)
2) Thurman by 12 round decision (.25 unit)

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Friday, March 6, 2015

Thurman vs. Guerrero: prefight analysis and prediction



Fight: Keith Thurman (24-0, 21 KOs) vs. Robert Guerrero (32-2-1, 18 KOs)
Location: MGM Grand Garden Arena, Las Vegas, Nevada
Date: March 7, 2015
Weight class: Welterweight (147 lbs)
Title(s) on the line: WBA World Welterweight title
TV: NBC
Line: Thurman -700, Guerrero +500 (5 Dimes, 3/6/15)
Purse: Thurman: $1.5 million, Guerrero: $1.23 million
Ring Magazine Rankings: Thurman: #7 ranked welterweight, Guerrero: #8 ranked welterweight
Style: Thurman: Orthodox, Guerrero: Southpaw
Referee: Kenny Bayless


Positives for Thurman
Negatives for Thurman
Positives for Guerrero
Negatives for Guerrero
Summary/Prediction


Positives for Thurman

  • Current WBA welterweight champion. Aggressive boxer-puncher with one-punch KO power in both hands. Relatively young boxer (26 years old) in his prime who is one of the most feared boxers in the sport today. Undefeated in 25 professional fights. (24-0 with one fight back in 2009 that was ruled a no contest after an accidental clash of heads in the 1st round.)
  • Power puncher with 21 wins by TKO/KO in 25 professional fights (84%), which ranks among the highest percentage of wins by TKO or KO in boxing today. Arguably behind only Gennady Golovkin and Sergey Kovalev as the most powerful puncher in boxing. Thurman has very good stamina and maintains his KO power even into later rounds, as evidenced by his late round TKO/KO victories vs. Diego Chaves and Jesus Soto Karass. 
  • Thurman's great power is complimented with very good boxing skills and high boxing IQ. Patient boxer who is adept at reading his opponents and making in-fight adjustments (as he did in his KO victory vs. Chaves). 
  • Has good hand speed, footwork, and throws combinations well. Well-rounded boxer; difficult to single out his best punch as he has a wide array of punches in his arsenal.  
  • Thurman is naturally bigger and stronger than Guerrero; Thurman has never fought below 147 lbs, while Guerrero spent the vast majority of his career at featherwieght (126 lbs), super featherweight (130 lbs), and lightweight (135 lbs) before moving up to welterweight 2.5 years ago.


Negatives for Thurman

  •  Lacks experience at the top level. Thurman has dominated B and C-level fighters for much of his career but Guerrero will be by far the toughest opponent he's faced to date. Although he arguably won all 12 rounds, Thurman didn't look impressive in his last fight vs. undefeated 40-year old journeyman Leonard Bundu, who he struggled with in spots and failed to win by knockout against (as was expected). (The usually popular Thurman was booed by the MGM Grand crowd in Las Vegas after his performance.) Guerrero is a battle-tested, physical pressure fighter who may test Thurman like he's never been tested before.
  • Suffered a left shoulder injury in 2014 which resulted in an 8-month layoff from the ring and perhaps significantly affected his performance last December vs. Bundu; the shoulder injury may still be a lingering issue for him. 
  • Shows a lack of discipline at times, especially on the defensive end. Is prone to dropping his hands, which has often left him exposed to clean counter shots (most notably vs. Chaves and Soto Karass). 


Positives for Guerrero

  • Former world champion (or interim world champion) in four different divisions (featherweight, super featherweight, lightweight, and welterweight). Aggressive, come-forward brawler who throws a high volume of punches. 6-time world champion who, immediately prior to fighting Floyd Mayweather, was ranked in the Ring Magazine pound-for-pound top 10.
  • Experienced fighter who has fought current and former world champions such as Orlando Salido, Joel Casamayor, Michael Katsidis, Andre Berto, and current #1 pound-for-pound champion Mayweather. Has a solid 3-1 record against these opponents, with one no contest. (Guerrero's November 2006 loss to Salido was ruled a no contest after Salido tested positive for steroids after the fight.) The only clear loss in Guerrero's career was to Mayweather, with his other loss coming in December 2005 via somewhat controversial split decision loss to Gamaliel Diaz (who he defeated by 6th round KO in their rematch six months later).  
  • Tough, crafty southpaw who fights particularly well on the inside. Is adept at smothering his opponents and turning fights into brawls, which could frustrate a young, relatively inexperienced fighter like Thurman. If Guerrero can turn the fight into a physical, inside brawl he has the chance to outpoint Thurman with his high work rate.
  • Has a very good to great chin. Has never lost by TKO/KO and has only been knocked down once in his career, a flash knockdown vs. Joel Casamayor in the last round of a fight he was winning by a wide margin. Seemed largely unaffected by flush shots from Andre Berto (who at the time was a feared power puncher) in their November 2012 fight.
  • Guerrero is an underrated, skilled fighter with good fundamentals. Throws many punches well but best punch is likely his left uppercut, which he even had success with in the early rounds of his fight vs. Mayweather. As evidenced by the fact that he is a 6-time world champion in four different weight divisions, Guerrero has actually long been one of the better boxers in the sport. Has underrated power, as evidenced by the fact that he knocked down career welterweight Andre Berto twice in the early rounds of their fight in only his second fight in the welterweight division.
  • Very determined, relentless boxer who fights with a lot of heart. Also has very good stamina, generally fighting with the same level of activity in later rounds as he does in early rounds, as evidenced in his most recent fight - a brutal fight of the year-candidate brawl vs. Yoshihiro Kamegai last June. Will be highly determined to win this fight to maintain his status as a big money fighter. 


Negatives for Guerrero

  • Has a solid chin but his defensive skills are questionable given the frequency with which he gets hit, particularly in recent fights. In Guerrero's most recent fight vs. Kamegai, he was hit with 278 power punches at a fairly high 38% connect rate per CompuBox stats. (Overall, more punches were landed in the Guerrero vs. Kamegai fight than any other fight in 2014 per CompuBox stats.) Guerrero was also the victim of numerous clean power shots in his other recent fights vs. Mayweather and Berto. As an inside brawler, Guerrero is more than willing to take a punch in order to throw a punch, a style which may prove disastrous vs. an elite power puncher like Thurman. Has shown a particular susceptibility to uppercuts, one of Thurman's better punches.
  • Guerrero is 31 years old, 5 years older than Thurman. 31 isn't necessarily old, but given some of the brutal wars he's recently been involved in (in particular the Kamegai and Berto fights), how much does he really have left in the tank? Fighters with a brawler boxing style tend to have shorter life spans (in terms of prime) than other boxers. Guerrero in recent fights has also been more flat-footed and shown signs of slowing reflexes.
  • Has been fairly inactive over the past few years, having fought only five times in the past four years - including only once in 2014 and once in 2013. With the long layoffs, how will he look vs. a potentially elite fighter in Thurman?
  • Guerrero is the more experienced fighter but, who has he really beaten? The world champions he's beaten are generally considered B-level fighters. Guerrero has never beaten a top level fighter (his only fight vs. an elite fighter was vs. Mayweather, a fight which he lost decisively); in Thurman, Guerrero will be fighting an A-level world champion in what will be the 2nd toughest test of his career. Other than Mayweather and Thurman, Guerrero's toughest test was a November 2006 featherweight title fight vs. Orlando Salido, a fight which he lost decisively, but was later ruled a no contest due to Salido testing positive for steroids.


Prefight Summary

While I certainly wouldn't put him anywhere near the class of great fighters of this generation (Mayweather, Pacquiao, Hopkins, Marquez, etc.), I do think Robert Guerrero is one of the more underrated boxers in recent years. Aside from the Mayweather fight Guerrero has not received much press during his career, but this guy didn't become a 6-time world champion in 4 different weight classes and ranked in the Ring Magazine top 10 pound-for-pound in the prime of his career for no reason. Guerrero can box. He's a crafty, intelligent veteran who poses a threat to even elite opposition due to his experience, great chin, fearlessness, and all-around boxing skills, particularly his ability to outbox his opponents from the inside with volume and precision.

Guerrero has decisively beaten nearly all of the solid competition put in front of him, his lone clear loss coming at the hands of undefeated #1 pound-for-pound king Floyd Mayweather; even in that fight most would agree Guerrero actually won the first two rounds of the fight before Floyd adjusted and dominated the rest of the fight with his clear speed and skill advantages. Keith Thurman isn't a proven inside fighter so if Guerrero can get inside on Thurman and smother him, I wouldn't be surprised to see Guerrero maybe eke out a victory by outworking Thurman and not giving Thurman enough space to land his power punches.

But it is Guerrero's lack of discipline defensively, combined with Thurman's power and mobility that I think gives the clear edge to Thurman in this matchup. Although Guerrero can box he's become - especially in recent fights - more of a brawler who has no problem trading punches due to his great chin and decent power. But trading punches with Thurman, who is quickly proving to be one of the elite power punchers in boxing, is almost certainly a recipe for disaster. Thurman is strong, physically bigger than Guerrero, and mobile enough to thwart any Guerrero attempts to make the match a physical fight inside. He is also patient, skilled, and intelligent enough to outbox the slower and somewhat flat-footed Guerrero from the outside, despite Guerrero's slight reach advantage. Guerrero's chin is solid but if he gets hit with the number of clean, flush power shots vs. Thurman that he has been hit with in his last three fights (which I expect him to), this will be a fairly easy wide decision - if not early stoppage - victory for Thurman. I expect Thurman's youth, power, and patient yet aggressive boxing style to overwhelm the older, defensively suspect, and battle-tested but perhaps battle-worn Guerrero.

All-in-all, this fight will be Thurman's toughest test to date in his career; a win here will solidify his status as one of the future stars of boxing and even as a possible opponent for Floyd Mayweather some time in 2016 if not later this year.


Prediction: Thurman to win 


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